Recently Tim Challies wrote a two-part blog series about the ninth commandment (“Thou shalt not bear false witness”), what can be seen here and here. Part one of my response was posted yesterday. Today I’m continuing to respond to the questions he asks that he says are prompted by the ninth commandment.
Hear no evil, see no evil
[perfectpullquote align=”full” bordertop=”false” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]Do you avoid reading bad news about people and situations that have no bearing on your life, your church, or your ministry?[/perfectpullquote]
Again, how do we know it has no bearing on our life, church, and ministry unless we read it and ponder it? Especially when we’re talking about the very leaders and gurus of the entire conservative evangelical movement? Would you really say this has no bearing on the lives of the people within those churches? What if the bad news is that a respected man’s counseling methods, practiced by thousands, is actually doing great harm? That’s bad news. But shouldn’t Christians learn about it so they won’t harm people in this way?
[perfectpullquote align=”full” bordertop=”false” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]Do you protect your own reputation, and even defend it when necessary, so you remain above reproach in the eyes of others?[/perfectpullquote]
My own reputation has gone through the wringer a few times since I’ve started speaking and acting in regard to abuse in fundamental and conservative evangelical circles. But when a man or woman’s reputation suffers at the hands of those who want to destroy it for one reason or another, the solution is for the character of the individual to prove out. First Peter 2:12 says,
[perfectpullquote align=”full” bordertop=”false” cite=”” link=”” color=”” class=”” size=””]Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.[/perfectpullquote]
The only way Christians should want anyone’s reputation to remain “above reproach” is if that person’s character is above reproach. The reputation should be a representation of who the person really is. This really shouldn’t be that hard.
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This blog contains many links, some giving further information about the abuses I refer to, and some giving commentary. The Here’s the Joy blog posts I link to in this article are these:
Making sense of the church world’s epidemic of abuse
Are all Christians hypocrites? A response to a Bill Hybels supporter
Should The Master’s University insist on loyalty to authority more than care for the oppressed?
The other kind of radical (a guest post for Give Her Wings)
Why are you so negative?” A response to “positive” people
The “innocent unti proven guilty” question: a response to Ryan Fullerton
If “Jane” from The Master’s University were to seek “Biblical counseling”
And all my other posts about nouthetic (aka “Biblical”) counseling
And the BJUGrace articles I link to in this post are these:
Why are you tarnishing the reputation of Christ before a watching world?
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Go here to download your free Guide, How to Enjoy the Bible Again (when you’re ready) After Spiritual Abuse (without feeling guilty or getting triggered out of your mind). You’ll receive access to both print and audio versions of the Guide (audio read by me). I’m praying it will be helpful.
Rebecca,
King David paid the price the for his sins and they were exposed.
What I find puzzling is aside from the abuses you are talking about, is many of the names you have included are Calvinists’ who embrace a heavy handed methodology to force feed their doctrine down the throats of their Congregation. (Doug Wilson, John MacArthur, James MacDonald, Mark Driscoll, Darrell Gilyard, Paige Patterson, Tullian Tchividjian, Jack Schaap, Ravi Zacharias, CJ Mahaney, Bill Hybels, and Michael Pearl)
The heavy handed methodologies, must be techniques that are being instilled in Reformed Seminaries. Are these techniques designed to indoctrinate Congregations to follow and sometimes obey the pastor, which makes victims more vulnerable to abuse?
There may be some that aren’t Calvinists’, but much of the abuses I’ve read about, were at the hands of heavy handed Calvinists’ who embraced their methodology more than the message.
I chose those people because they were people from my former and current worlds, fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism, the latter of which is also Tim Challies’s world. I’m sure there are plenty of abuses in the charismatic world, for example, but I imagine Tim Challies wouldn’t have any problem with those who expose them.
Yes, there are many many abuses in the Charismatic world (which is by no means a monolithe, but includes many streams and segments)… Authoritarian leaders who use their position to gain and keep control over their congregants is a well known problem there.. alongside with rhetorics like ‘Don’t touch God’s anointed’ … and the use of ‘prophetic words’ to keep the sheep obedient and vulnerable.
Personally, I have not come across sexually abusive pastors and leaders myself (I have encountered one case, where the unclean spirit was easily detected, and that wolf in sheep’s clothing was later removed from the office, due to other issues he caused), but I have heard and read so. many. horror stories.
Sadly I do and can believe anything is possible to a deranged mind.
There is no need for him to say these things unless he is afraid that either he or someone he considers a friend might be exposed for something, some sin/crime, that would diminish his/their reputation. I become suspicious of people who teach lies like the one of Tim Challies’ that you have addressed in this post.
Thank you for the work you do to expose the lies and abuse by those who claim the name of Jesus. It is the right thing to do and I am grateful that you are willing to do it.
Thank you for your encouragement, Kayla.
You did a great job with this post, Rebecca. It would have taken a long time to write and put in all those links.
I’m grateful for your clear-minded analysis of Challies’ propaganda ( I can’t call it teaching). Hopefully, he will read it and respond, but I can imagine he might be afraid.
I don’t know who this Tim guy is, but from what I read, he seems to be a creep, or one of those abuser apologists. Just how he crafted these ‘questions’ is telling. They’re accusations. They assign bad motives, make light of abusers’ abuse, and just make an abused person feel bad…..almost feels like the stuff ‘c’hristian abusers say to ‘submit’ (silence, falsely guilt trip, shame) their wives.
I’m glad you broke this down, and responded, point by point, as this Tim guy’s stuff is mindlessly repeated by others, conservative Christians who then go on to hurt more abused, oppressed, harmed victims.
This Tim guy is bad news. I don’t see him talking about Christ or Scripture, but yet assuming airs as though his accusatory ‘questions’ are godly of him to wield and weaponize against abused, supporters of the abused.
This guy is such a hypocrite, too, as evidenced by things like this dandy of a quote:
:”Do you assume you know the inner motives of other people?”
Tim’s accusatory ‘questions’ (which are really attacking statements disguised as ‘questions’) do exactly this.
And it is so good to read your posts because in another post I saw the old ‘when you point a finger at someone, there’s three fingers pointing back at you’ silencer. Nope, not anywhere in the Bible. Same with the awful, ‘if you can’t say anything nice about someone, don’t say anything at all.’ Not anywhere in the Bible. Same goes for the horrible ‘look for the best in others and you’ll find it’ or ‘assume the best in others’…. I could go on and on.
This Tim guy’s accusations craftily disguised as mere ‘questions’ seem to be right in the same mentality as the other dictates given above which serve to silence victims, have victims feel obligated to cover up for the abusers’ wrongdoing, and feel truly awful if they ever make a peep about anything done to them.
Actually, God’s way of dealing with miscreants involves due process. When church discipline is working properly, it is effective. Secrecy doesn’t exist, when an abuser knows he will be called out on each offense. The reason abuse has flourished in religious circles is that most churches no longer practice biblical church discipline,as described in the book of Matthew. And,yes, police should promptly be called, as soon as any accusation of criminal conduct is made. This not only preserves evidence, but also gives both the accuser and the accused a just chance to have their say. The point is, I do not know that simply spreading stories about anyone figures into God’s plan. We must remember that we are not judge, jury, nor executioner. The right thing is to encourage changes in policy that will ensure safety for everyone, along with a godly following of Matthew 18.
This would be good, yes.
I need to add, though, I’ve heard of more cases than I care to recount of people who think they were following Matthew 18 but were really following a perversion of it (forcing a sexual abuse victm who is a child or very naive, for example, of “following Matthew 18” with her abuser).
I also know of many cases of church discipline gone awry, in which the abuser feigns repentance (or feigns innocence), and then the victim, because she “won’t forgive” or won’t reconcile, is the one who is excommunicated.
Instead of changes in policies, what the church of Jesus Christ desperately needs is changes in hearts.
I agree with what Rebecca D has said about how often Matthew 18 is misused.
Matthew 18 is not the only passage in the NT that talks about church discipline. 1 Cor 5 also talks about it. Churches are largely ignoring the commandment given in 1 Cor 5:11-13.
Margie, I invite you to look at this link. Although it talks about domestic abuse in the church, the principles can also be applied to other kinds of abuse in the church.
https://cryingoutforjustice.com/how-does-church-discipline-apply-in-cases-of-domestic-abuse/