Yesterday’s post presented the question from a reader and the first part of my answer, about wicked parents and how we as the body of Christ need to be teaching children to obey God rather than man. You can read Part One here.
But what about controlling parents of adults , especially those whose parents espouse some form of Patriarchal beliefs? A few months ago I made a plea to these adults in the post “To those in ‘Biblical’ Patriarchy: return to God” (link), pleading with them not to let their parents take the place of God. (This was in the section “A call to young adults under the system . . . to listen to His voice” which I hope you’ll read if you haven’t.)
So now some of these adults are looking at the “Children obey your parents” Scriptures and asking if there is any Biblical justification to do anything other than comply with everything their parents command.
Here’s the pertinent part of the letter again.
My oldest son is a very loving, kind, Scripture-studied man, very opposite his father, but cannot free his mind from those Scriptures as there is no clarity in Scripture as to an age when you would stop obeying and ever not submit to the authority God has placed over us.
Now I have recently met a family with 6 children that the father has brought up not allowing them to get a driver’s license, get a job, vote, or think on their own. They are not allowed to get counsel outside of him and not allowed to interpret Scripture outside of his interpretation. They are completely broken.
Here is my reply.
What is an adult “child” to do when told to obey a parent who isn’t a criminal, but is controlling?
This is what you were really asking. My heart aches to hear the bondage that these young adults are in. I know that you believe this is not what God wants, and they may wonder if it’s not God wants, but they long to understand and obey the Scriptures.
So I thought about a few things.
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- I looked at the word obey, which is the Greek word hupakouo.
- I researched the word children, which in both Colossians and Ephesians is the Greek word teknon, which means simply offspring or child.
- I looked at the context.
- I thought about many other statements and directives in the New Covenant about family relationships and how these relate to one’s relationship and standing with God.
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This article has now been incorporated into the book Untwisting Scriptures that were used to tie you up, gag you, and tangle your mind: Book 2 Patriarchy and Authority. You can find that book here.
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Go here to download your free Guide, How to Enjoy the Bible Again (when you’re ready) After Spiritual Abuse (without feeling guilty or getting triggered out of your mind). You’ll receive access to both print and audio versions of the Guide (audio read by me). I’m praying it will be helpful.
Excellent advice to the adult children for the renewing of their minds in Christ.
I do think this father’s control may violate laws. He seems to be holding these people hostage: “not allowing them to get a driver’s license, get a job, vote, or think on their own.”
That situation raises the question, does the person who wrote you have a duty to report this possble crime to police?
I think if his restraining isn’t physical, but is only emotional, mental, and spiritual, he isn’t violating any laws.
For example: The right to vote may not be abridged by lying to people and telling them they have no right to vote. Violating this principle can be done verbally as well a physically.
For example: some children and adults who have been enslaved, kidnapped, or trafficked have been constrained and coerced by lies to make then fearful, rather than by physical restraint. This does not mean the person’s legal rights were not violated.
Unless this father is very wealthy, I doubt he is providing for these adults while they live a life of leisure. More likely he is using and abusing their labor in some fashion, which is involuntary servitude.
It’s *wrong* to lie to people to tell them they don’t have rights that are actually theirs, but I believe the lie itself wouldn’t be a crime that could be taken to court. If the adult is claiming the servitude is voluntary instead of involuntary, if the adult can actually physically walk out of the house, as long as he or she isn’t being imprisoned or beaten, I believe it isn’t a legally punishable offense. Even in the examples you give, of kidnapping to enslave and/or traffic, if the person is over 18 and says he is with the kidnaper voluntarily, there’s nothing the legal system can do. It’s like cult membership–what has to be done is the mindset of the member must be changed, so that he wants to leave.
This Father is not doing anything that could be legally dealt with, it’s all about making us believe we are doing the right thing, or by using guilt to keep us at home doing what he desires…he is not physically controlling them but rather mentally.
Thank you for this blog post, I do believe it helped give some clarity for me, however for those still in it, how do you present this to your Father? We can study the scriptures on our own and come to conclusions, he can’t stop us, however when those conclusions lead us to take action against what he desires now we are sinning and in rebellion against him and God, he presents a very convincing argument and at the end of every conversation is confusion and doubt… Especially for my sister, she believes it is different for daughters than for son’s. It’s kind of a trap you can’t get out of while you’re still in it. Any suggestions for those still in the home?
All of these suggestions were for those still in the home. I did my best to make a case that following God can look quite different from following your father. This is where you must be led of the Holy Spirit to follow Jesus Christ and take a stand. Are you following God to stand on your own two feet in Christ, with your dependence as an adult on Him? Then you are not in rebellion, because that famous “rebellion” verse in I Samuel is directed not at someone who was disobeying his parent, but at someone who was disobeying *the direct word of God.* As an adult Christian living in this New Covenant, God speaks directly to you every bit as much as He does to your father, with words like the ones I wrote about in this post. (And there’s nothing in the New Covenant to indicate that daughters have a different kind of subjugation to their fathers than sons do. If your sister “believes it is different for daughters than for sons,” it’s because she’s believing something that is not taught in the Word of God.)
I understand that actually getting out can be extremely difficult. But it IS possible, and many have done it. I’ve known of one or two cases where abusively controlling fathers have suddenly–and very briefly–given permission for an adult son or daughter to leave, so it would be wise to be prepared to go at a moment’s notice in case the Lord opens that door in that way. But that isn’t the only way He can open the door. He can open it by a faithful Christian providing a job and a place to live in another location.
I want to add that when I say “there is much life to be lived,” I hope it was clear that I’m not talking about going out and jumping into fleshly indulgences, not at all! That is a way of death. I want to see young adults walking in the light of Jesus Christ and listening to His voice and living for Him, not in rebellion to Him with all kinds of wanton sins.
But the people who write to me aren’t the ones who want to live a wanton lifestyle. They’re the ones who want to follow Jesus but feel, or have felt, stuck and nearly hopeless. For you, I’m saying, by the Word of God, there IS hope. As you’re in the Scriptures and getting to know the Lord Jesus Christ–truly know Him–you will be strengthened in your inner man, your core, and will more and more have the fortitude necessary to do what He calls you to do. More and more, as one of His sheep you’ll know your Shepherd’s voice. It’s a matter of whose voice you’re going to “attentively listen” to.
I have had to think through these things myself as I have come out of the patriarchy of the conservative homeschool movement I grew up in. Thanks so much, Rebecca, for addressing this BIG problem!
From my perspective, within the ATI homeschooling community at least, children were pushed to maturity by their parents during their preteen-to-early-teen years. However, the controlling-style parenting started backfiring as the teenagers grew into adulthood. That is the time when a normal human has to grow into independence. They have to learn to make their own decisions and not see their parents as gods who will always communicate God’s will to them. However, these young people (myself included) were held back from gaining maturity, in the name of preventing an “independent” or “rebellious” spirit.
Bill Gothard taught that your parents would ALWAYS point you to God’s will. Therefore, in order to obey God, you must obey your parents. As I pointed out in a blog post a few months ago (http://www.aradicalforjesus.com/2017/06/24/bill-gothard-still-dishonest/), he even indicated that parents’ responsibility for their children continued until they delegated it to someone else–for example, in marriage!
One verse that has been very helpful for me in breaking free from patriarchal thinking is 1 Corinthians 11:3: “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ…”
EVERY man. At age 28, I am a man (despite the fact that some people think I’m a twin to my 20-year-old brother). Therefore, I am directly responsible to Jesus, not to my dad. As to the next part of this passage (“the head of the woman is the man”), I believe that “woman” would be better translated “wife” (both English words are translated from the same Greek word), because nowhere does Scripture teach that ALL women are to submit to ALL men. On the contrary, the Bible repeatedly tells wives to submit to their own husbands. The point of all this is to say: young adult women are not under their dad’s headship any more than young men.
Another passage that God used to start changing my thinking was Luke 12:51-53: “Do you think that I have come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, no, but rather division. For from now on, there will be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
We could, of course, suggest that perhaps the parents were in the right, and their children were rebellious. But Jesus is even more explicit in Matthew 10:34-36:
“Don’t think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn’t come to send peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man at odds against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s foes will be those of his own household.”
And then He drops the hammer in the next two verses:
“He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me isn’t worthy of me. He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me, isn’t worthy of me.”
(Matthew 10:37-38)
Jesus explicitly says that He came to create division; that there would be young people who would follow Him and would run into conflict with their parents because of it. He even said it would happen while they lived in the same home as their parents!
Contrary to Bill Gothard’s teachings on how to be authority-pleasers, followers of Jesus may have conflict with their parents! It’s that simple, and we have to learn to please Jesus, not our parents, if we want to follow Him. Believe me, when you realize that pleasing Jesus does NOT necessarily mean pleasing your parents, it creates a HUGE relief!
And Jesus also says that we MUST not love our parents more than Him. We MUST do what He calls us to do, regardless of what our parents may say. Period!
I do believe that as long as children are under their parents’ roof, they should follow whatever “ground rules” the parents set (clean up after yourself, don’t smoke pot here, park your car there). But, speaking to other adults (18+): if your parents won’t let you believe anything other than what they believe; if they still treat you like a kid, meting out punishments like they did at age 10; if they try to control where you work or who your friends are; if they won’t admit they’re wrong and repent, even when confronted with clear wrongdoing–your parent(s) are acting in a controlling, narcissistic manner that is completely contrary to everything that Scripture teaches about how leaders should lead.
I’d also like to share another post on this subject that I think may be helpful: http://www.aradicalforjesus.com/2016/01/17/the-voice-of-papa-is-the-voice-of-god-part-1/
Thanks again!
Joel, I love how you’ve thought this through with Scripture in your own situation, and I love the passion with which you express it. Thank you so much for your thoughts, and your links. I’m looking forward to reading them.
I enjoyed these articles . . . and a few others! I recommend “The Voice of Papa is the Voice of God” for another look at how one adult formerly “under the umbrella” of the parents’ authority saw through Scripture that he should get out. Here’s the link again. http://www.aradicalforjesus.com/2016/01/17/the-voice-of-papa-is-the-voice-of-god-part-1/
Thanks a lot!
Thank you for this important post. Just a note that it can be extremely difficult to trust in your own ability to study the scriptures after a lifetime of being told that your thinking is wrong and your heart deceitful. It can be much easier to leave the household first (if at all possible) and be able to step away from that influence in order to begin to see and feel things more clearly. And domestic abuse centers and hotlines can be used in cases like these, to provide support, and resources to help adult children leave the home if they desire.
That makes sense, and that’s wise advice. Thank you!
Thank you for this post, and for going deep into the Scripture and the meaning of the words. I am the eldest daughter of the family of 8 that was mentioned, 26 years of age. (This is not my real name.) I have been giving this a lot of thought. I also really appreciate Joel’s posts. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and studying. I’ve learned a lot about emotional abuse, and am able to recognize manipulation more now.
You said in your post about patriarchy that it can be confusing and terrifying. Yes, exactly. I want to follow Christ with my whole heart, and I see much in my life that needs to change. It is very frightening, though, to think that maybe I’m being deceived and really should just obey my father in everything. I mean, 2 Timothy 3:1-9 is pretty serious, with “disobedience to parents” being right smack-dab in the middle of a long list of terrible sins! Then in verse 6, I wonder, “Am I being one of those gullible women? Or have I been so, in following the idea that I still must obey my father explicitly?”
I also am well aware of the implications of taking a stand. When I think of it, when I see the pain in my father’s eyes over my 4 siblings that have left, when I consider the good times and how much I love (and like) my dad, (out of all 6 of us, I probably have the best relationship with him, although I can’t share very deep heart issues), when I know that this may end our relationship, it tears my heart. Yet, my greatest fear is to not honor my Heavenly Father. When I think of that, I am quite willing to lay down my earthly relationship if need be.
Is there a book you recommend for daughters who are dealing with emotional abuse and manipulation, and how to recognize and Biblically respond to it? Is “Untwisting the Scriptures” applicable to this kind of situation?
Oh, Annie, your situation sounds so difficult, but sadly, not uncommon. I’m sure there are other young adults (or not-so-young adults) who have read or will read this post who can relate to your situation. One thing to remember is that no matter what happens–whether you stay or go–there will be pain, and not just yours. Your father’s too. It’s not good for *him* for his children to continue to follow his every whim all his life. The best life for *him* will be to find a life of love and service for the Lord outside of himself.
“Untwisting Scriptures,” which I hope is the first of a series, focuses on specific wrong teachings (you must surrender your rights, you’re just bitter, don’t take up offenses, etc) by focusing on specific Scriptures (turning the other cheek, living sacrifice, Jesus’ example in Philippians 2, all the kinds of bitterness in the Bible, the root of bitterness, the Scripture Gothard used when he taught against “taking up offenses,” etc).
I don’t know of a book specifically geared to daughters dealing with emotional abuse and manipulation. I would recommend “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse,” “Boundaries,” and “Mending the Soul.” Possibly some others, but they don’t occur to me right now.
Blessings to you on your journey. I’m praying for you as you do the next right thing.
Thank you! Those are some very good reminders. I have been thinking quite a bit lately that maybe the best thing for my dad, not just for me, is for me to move out.
I had another couple questions. I looked up all the times “teknon” was used and it does refer to adult “children” some of the time, as in Acts 13:33, 2 Timothy 1:2 and 1 Peter 3:6. I also noticed that the phrase “bring them up” from Ephesians 6 is the same as the word “nourishes” from Ephesians 5:29. What is your take on that, and how does it fit with your explanation?
My friend has “Untwisting the Scriptures”, so I plan to read it, and I will look up the others.
Thank you!
Hi Annie Hope~ Here is my response to your questions about the Bible verses:
Regarding “nourish” or “nurture.”
Ephesians 5:28-29 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body.
This passage is about an adult caring for his own physical body, which becomes a person’s own responsibility once he becomes mature. In the same way, in the spiritual realm, which is the context of Ephesians 6:3, when children are young they need someone else to nurture them. When they are adults, they can and should nurture themselves.
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Regarding your verses about “children”:
Acts 13:32-33 “We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: “‘You are my son; today I have become your father.'”
There was a very strong generational bond among the Jews in the sense that one generation depended on the prophecies, promises, and other Scriptures given to the previous generations. This would be true for them even as adults, though as adults they were responsible before God to follow Jesus Christ themselves without the previous generations telling them how it was to be done. In fact, they, the current generation, were now telling the older generation how to follow God.
I Peter 3:5-6 “For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.”
This is referring to a spiritual relationship, in the sense that when you do what is right you can say, “I’m a daughter of Sarah,” whether or not you’re actually descended from her.
II Timothy 1:1-2 “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, in keeping with the promise of life that is in Christ Jesus, To Timothy, my dear son: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
There is definitely a father-son bond here, even though it’s a spiritual one. It’s a good example of the use of this word in the case of an adult “son,” because you can see from the letters to Timothy that Paul (as Timothy’s spiritual father) didn’t expect to control Timothy’s actions, choices, decisions, and thoughts, but expected Timothy to conduct himself wisely led by the Spirit of God in matters of the churches, with the guidelines Paul was laying out for him from afar.
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In regard to the proper use of the Greek language, I asked my friend Sam Powell (a Greek and Hebrew scholar who is a pastor and blogger at www.myonlycomfort.com) to comment. He argued that the meaning of Greek words is found not primarily in lexicons but in context, saying, “The words ‘obey’ and ‘children’ mean almost exactly in Greek what they mean in English, nuanced, and varied, and understood in context. . . . The exegesis of this passage isn’t determined by the lexicon, since the words are basic and common. The exegesis is on context and in the proportion of faith. In other words, anyone reading this without an agenda would understand immediately what was meant.”
As an example, if I stood at the edge of a crowd of people of all ages and called, “Children! Come for lessons!” then some younger teenagers might puzzle over whether or not they were included in my call, but adults would know they weren’t included. This is basically what the apostle Paul was doing—speaking to a large group of people of all ages and expecting them to know to understand who he was delineating. Bible commentators through ages past have understood this term in this part of Scripture to mean young children, not adults, and didn’t even bother trying to sort it out because to them the meaning seemed self-evident.
Sam Powell again: “When God said, ‘Children, obey your parents,’ he also says, ‘Let no one again place you under bondage.’ And ‘Woe to the one who puts his trust in man.’ And ‘There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.’ So God certainly did not mean that a father has the absolute right over the souls of his children, telling them what to believe and how to believe it. That only belongs to Jesus.”
He concludes with a comment about authority: “In my experience, those who have argued with me about the father’s absolute right over his children and wife, based on these kinds of arguments, never submit to any authority other than themselves.” Of course I don’t know if this is the case in any of the parents you know, but this has been his experience.
I hope this is helpful. Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Also, thank you, THANK YOU, for pointing out that the passage on rebellion was direct disobedience to God, which one can do while thinking they are obeying Him by obeying their parent.
Hi Annie Hope,
I’m a 42 year old Mom of three who was raised in a very strict Gothard homeschooling home, but thankfully my parents did allow me to go to a Christian college, but after college was when a lot of the stay-at-home daughter emotional pull started for me.
Have you ever seen the http://quiveringdaughters.blogspot.com?
It’s been around a number of years and there is a wonderful book by the same name. My siblings and I are all free of the “movement” now, thank God!
You mention how sad your father is about those who have “left” your family. It is one thing to be sad for those who have left following Christ, it is another thing to be sad for those who have left following him. Many well-intentioned fathers/husbands influenced by the patriarchial movement have made themselves the popes of their families. No one is allowed to think for themselves or hold interpretations outside of the father’s. I know this may sound harsh, but the truth is that this is pure heresy, no matter how well-intentioned or “loving.”
One doctrine that really helped me to make this clear in my mind is the doctrine of the priesthood of the individual believer. This came to the forefront of Christian belief especially in the Reformation when many believers broke away from the Catholic Church and asserted their rights to believe as their own consciences were directed by Scripture. Please, do your own research on this—and let the truth set your heart free
I love this, Beth. Thank you so much! I’d like to also promote here the new site, http://www.recoveringdaughters.com, where the site admin (a trustworthy friend of mine) is hoping other recovering daughters will post their stories.
Thank you so mych for encouraging those who feel so TRAPPED in this Rebecca. Your understanding of the tentacles that keep people stuck in this is profound! Reading this Echoes of my “ SO WHAT” conversations as a young adult first being challenged to leave such a system.
It can be so hard when people are first coming out and everything is tangled and confused. It’s important for them to have stable “others” in their lives who can help them with the untangling. I’m so thankful you had that person in your life to help you with that.
Excellent post. It’s sad to hear that there are parents like this out in the world. Most major religions (Jewish, Catholic, etc.) have rites of passage and “ages of accountability” at which a child becomes considered an adult in the community. It is like a step up into adulthood. There’s always the aim of getting those children to adulthood.
It saddens me when Christians use these commands to prevent the normal separation/individuation that we all pass through to happen. We all walk through a process of separating and individuating from our families of origin, of “leaving and cleaving” (although I know in some circles, this means you can’t leave home without being married), clipping the apron strings and emotionally leaving home. This usually involves some tension, some push/pull between parents and children, but when the parents are overly controlling or abusive, it can make that tension even harder.
There are 3 parenting styles: authoritarian, authoritative, and permissive. Authoritarian is that very control-based parenting: overly strict, obey-me-at-all-costs kind of parenting. Permissive is when the parent sets too few boundaries, allowing the children to figure things out on their own. Authoritative is that healthy balance in between, setting proper boundaries, providing proper discipline, the “training up of children in the fear and discipline of the Lord.”
Funny, I once heard R.C. Sproul describe that passage of “fathers do not provoke your children to wrath” to mean a failure to discipline one’s children. I always thought that was strange, because I always felt like Paul’s command was an instruction against overly harsh parenting. I suppose that either extreme can breed anger and rebellion in the children.
It also saddens me to see Christian parents of a very conservative bend look at their children in their adolescence and young adulthood and label their behavior as “rebellious”. Sometimes it is, but like I said, we all go through a process of “rebellion”, of separating and individuation. We all, to some degree go through a prodigal season, where we have to leave home, find our own way, fall on our butts and stand on our own two feet. That’s not rebellion, that’s normal human behavior.
I can totally relate to people bringing their codependent behaviors to church.
Yes, and I also addressed the rebellion question both in my most recent “Untwisting Scriptures” book and in this blog post: https://heresthejoy.com/2018/12/joseph-wasnt-afraid-of-rebellion-the-sin-like-witchcraft/